Q: Can a “clydesdale” train for marathons?
Lauren,
I know you’re an elite, fit, petite runner, but what kind of training is appropriate for a larger guy. I’m 6′4″ and weigh around 215, but would love to start running recreational marathons. I’m athletic, and have even done some running in my past, but I always worry about stress fractures and the ultimate demon, plantar fasciitis.
How do I get fit without getting hurt?
–Clydesdale
A:
Clydesdale,
Forgive me, but I’m imagining Mel Gibson as William Wallace in Braveheart here. He can throw a spear 300 meters to hit an Englishman and wash clothes on his abs, but a marathon might be more hazardous than warfare for the guy.
My advice to you as a clydesdale is to build your mileage very very very slowly. As in 5-10% increases each week for three weeks, and then back off for the fourth 25-40%. A twelve week mileage buildup might look like this if you are already running consistently now:
40m, 44m, 48m, 35m, 48, 53, 58, 45, 58, 64, 70, 55.
Be sure you take a day or two off each week; the rest days and lower mileage weeks are what allow your body to absorb the training stimulus without it putting you over the injury cliff. If you follow a specific marathon training plan designed for waifs, adjust it by taking 10-20 miles off per week and replacing it with outdoor cycling, elliptical, or better yet, spin classes (those things make you so ridiculously fit!)
Your biggest danger areas for injury as a clydesdale will be your feet and shins. Rehab exercises are important to do in preparation for a buildup, and you should stick with it twice a week all year. But that won’t make a bit of difference if your running mechanics are off.
It is more important for bigger runners to run correctly than it is for smaller runners. Since 4x your body weight must be absorbed by your joints, ligaments, etc. when running, it gets exponentially more dangerous to run incorrectly when you are bigger. For example: a 120 pound girl may feel 480 pounds of pressure on her shins if she runs with poor form. The shins are fielding 360 pounds of extra weight. A 217 pound guy feels 868 pounds on his shins…that’s 651 extra pounds compared to her 360!!!! So for bigger runners, it is crucial to take the time to learn to run properly.
People are very resistent to “learning to run” when they have been running all their lives, but remember that just because it is natural doesn’t mean we naturally do it the best way. Nearly everyone who throws a ball for the first time steps forward with the wrong foot and the ball goes a disappointing 3 feet. One throwing lesson completely revolutionizes the way you throw, and allows you to unlock your natural potential. Same is true for running.
I would be happy to address “how to run” if you have that question, but I’ll leave you with this for now: you can train for marathons as a clydesdale, but you can’t afford to get carried away with training and make stupid decisions. For longevity sake, consider doing a max of one marathon per year, and focus on shorter races the rest of the year. There are a bunch of races around the country that have specific divisions for clydesdales, which might be a cool challenge. You just might become a legend like William Wallace.
-L-Train
I am likely an excepton. I am 51, 6’7″ and I weigh 260 pounds. I train in New England. In 2010 I ran five marathons, completing two within six days: Boston (time 4:25) and Big Sur (time 4:27). I ran my first ultra of 31 miles and broke six hours at about 5:54 on one of the hottest days of the year in July 17 – a sunny 11am start. In total, I have completed 9 marathons and probably 15 half marathons, several 30k’s, 25k’s 10-milers – even Mount Washington. My best marathon finish was my first – 4:15. In 2010 my weight was approximately 255 average for all events. I strongly recommend concerted cross-training, and I would specifically focus on Vinyasa yoga for core strength, and stationary recumbant cycling for endurance and quad strength, which also improves the knees. I don’t encourage shorter races, especially 5k’s and 10k’s. Races this short are in many ways a trap because I myself always want to run faster, but often at the expense of, not shins or feet, but groin adductor and abdomin stress. When accustomed to marathon speeds, fast running can play havoc on marathon conditioning. I would suggest maybe one or two 10k races for fun at about early/mid-training period, and no 5k’s. I like to train at about seven miles per run twice a week, and the third run, a maximum distance for a long run, should be no more than 18-20 miles – even less. Save the long distance for the marathon (although a first-timer likely needs to know he/she can break 20 miles in order to dare 26.2). In lieu of 22 miler, stay on the recumbant bicycle for 3 hours – sounds awful, but it isn’t so bad if you put a movie on. (This means it might be worth buying a bike (and a movie)). Also recumbant allows for sustained comfort over a long duration. You get a fantastic quad workout, stronger knees and your cardio-pulmonary knows it can sustain hours and hours of activity. It is an excellent training device and mental testing ground without impact. The most important advice I can provide from experience is – don’t get into high mileage long runs where, say in miles 17-20, you’re running on an angled road shoulder. You don’t need to be worn out like that and also running an uneven surface. Pick your terrain for long distance training very carefully. Even in marathons: you don’t have to run difficult road camber. You can stick to the crown of the road on the yellow line. You’re big – stake your ground! Lastly, although I am proof that a Clydesdale (in my case, a Shire) can run multiple marathons each year without injury, I’ve done so with caution. I never want to take the practice lightly – moderate success can lead to mistakes, so I think it is best to focus on fewer running goals… next year.
Hi David,
Thanks a million for offering your expertise on this subject! Sounds like you’ve really got a great system down that works great for you. I’m especially impressed and interested in your use of cross training to prepare for these long races. Many runners are afraid to trade in a run for a bike ride or elliptigo now and then, especially on those higher risk long efforts. Your detailed advice will surely come in handy for other Clydesdales on this site.
Thank you and good luck with your running,
Lauren
At 6′-6″ and 240lbs I can offer similar advice. Don’t raise your mileage too fast and be patient in building your speed. I tried to train for a marathon twice in a year and got injured both times when I got to 35-40 miles weekly in the typical programs.
I took advice from a few friends and went to 3x a week training – build a base till your longest run is 12miles, and after that weekly will be 1 long run increasing 2 miles every two weeks run at 70% max HR, one easy recovery run, and 1 speed day. Build up to 35 miles per week. With this I was able to run a 1:54:00 half and a 4:25:00 first marathon. After 7 months not a single injury.
Except for the speed work – ALL RUNNING SHOULD BE AT 70% HR.
I disagree about short races 5K and 10K…..I have been running them for a decade no problem even at 250+lbs. Finished one in 23:00 recently.
Feeling like I want to weigh in here (excuse the pun!). I’m a 39 year-old Aussie, tipping the scales at 195 lbs. While I ran track in my last year at school, I bulked up, but still kept fit with running, spinning and weights ever since. Completed my first marathon (Big Sur) in April, 2010, weighing 225 lbs, in 3.42.08. Ran Outer Banks in November, 2010, in 3.38.29. At 225 lbs, it’s difficult for me to run more than 3 x weekly, so I started taking private yoga lessons with a fantastic teacher who had run Boston as well as group classes. For Boston this year, I weighed in around 215 lbs, and finished in 3.33.53, and I was disappointed, given that it was my third marathon. That’s when I got serious. I ramped up the yoga, went and saw a nutritionist (Tara Mardigan who works with the Red Sox) who made some tweaks to my diet, started wearing Vibram 5-fingers (those barefoot shoes) and took Danny Dreyer’s Chi Running course. The day after I took Danny’s course, I ran the Chicago Half-Marathon on 11 Sept, dropping over 2 minutes off my PR to 1.29.05. Four weeks later, I improved my half to 1.23.49, and then in Philly on 20 November, I improved my marathon PR by almost 26 minutes, to 3.08.08, qualifying for Boston (3.10 is the new qualifier for my age group).
I don’t think there is any one silver bullet. Because of our weight, we need to train smart, not too frequently. Diet is critical (even though I drink more than I should), yoga has unbelievable utility in terms of flexibility, strength, breathing and relaxation, while taking a course like Danny’s makes one focus on form, running from the core, and cadence. Some days, I will run and do yoga, but I never run on consecutive days as I don’t want to risk injury. The Vibrams have been awesome too, although they don’t compensate for poor technique or heeling striking.
I agree with Friendly Giant that it’s good to run the shorter distances too, particularly to gauge progression and general fitness (as well as more accurate predictor of marathon time).
It’s been two years since I started running seriously again, and the times I’m putting up over the shorter distances are close to what I was doing 17 years ago.
Next goal is to break 3 hours!
Thanks Mick for sharing your tips. And congrats on your huge improvements. I also think Yoga is a huge asset for distance runners, and it has made a big difference in my career, mostly because of the mental benefits. Sounds like you have really found your groove. Good luck and get after that Sub-3!
Being a bigger guy myself, I often wonder what a “Clydesdale” is capable of…
I’ve still got age on my side at 29, am 6’3” and 215 pounds. I learned my lesson the hard way by running on a tibia stress fracture without heeding the warning signs my body was giving me. The stress fracture turned into a full tibia fracture! I was over-training by trying to get my 5K time down too fast too soon. I was running a weekly 5K at the 20:00 mark and made it to the mid 19’s a few times and also ran hard 3 mile runs twice a week trying to keep that same pace before the fracture side-lined me 6 mo. Luckily, the break was clean and needed no surgery, rods, casting, etc. so I was able to do non-impact exercises, mainly swimming, biking, elliptical trainer, and mostly all the upper body weight training I had been used to doing during the recovery time.
A hard lesson learned, but now I know the benefits of cross training! By biking (road biking with a group) a couple of times a week, running the weekly faster-paced 5K group run with my local running club, doing a longer 6 mile run on Sundays, and hitting the pool once a week, it gives your legs a chance to heal from the impacts of just running only. I also try to run with my two dogs at a moderate pace for about 3 miles once or twice a week too 🙂 Luckily, all is recovered from the fracture and I’m back under the 20 minute 5K time when I push for it and recently completed the New Orleans Rock and Roll Half Marathon in 1:34:21 which was 3 minutes faster than the one I did in January (that was my first one).
So my advice is to build up to the faster paced times, build up to your longer mileage, and really look at cross training. You’ll be surprised how much road biking and swimming builds up your running endurance…and then you have the basics for a triathlon which is next on my bucket list!
Lauren (and other contributors),
Wanted to follow-up here, as I’m pretty passionate about the subject of Clydesdale/ Athena running (btw, Laura Chase from CalPoly has published some interesting peer-reviewed research on this too).
Since my last posting, weight still around 195, now down to 17.42 for 5km, 1.01.23 for 10m and 1.22.47 for the half. Still running only 3 x weekly (including a track session), still running in Vibrams and still doing yoga 4 – 6 x weekly. Proof that high mileage is not a pre-requisite for continued improvement. It’s rare that my weekly mileage exceeds 35 – 40 miles.
Also wanted to include part of an email exchange I had with one Ken Yanowski, who is recognised as one of the fathers of the modern-day Clydesdale movement. Throughout his career, he has maintained a weight of around 200 lbs. He hates running junk miles and is more focused on quality workouts and nutrition.
Here’s what he said:
“Anyway, I have had a pretty good career, so I can’t complain, just have to deal with keeping an aging body going. I did run a 5:06 mile last spring at 55 years old, so I was very pleased with that. But unfortunately I have had to deal with some sort of injury bothering me ever since then.
“Would be happy to compare training notes with you. My lifetime PR’s are pretty strong. I’ve run a 4:29 mile; 16:03 5K and 2:49 Marathon. Most of those were way back in my prime.
“I have always focused on interval training as the primary strength of my conditioning efforts. Lots of track workouts. Also have lifted weights for most of my life, still do. Have done of fair amount of cycling & rollerblading for cross training.”
This page is a big help.
I’m 6’3″ and 260 pounds and a 51″ chest. My main problem is my knees.
I want to run a marathon in about 6 months. I’ve been running for about a month now about 20 miles / week. I have a schedule laid out for the next 6 months that includes longer runs and 3 rest / cross training days per week.
What is the “proper running technique” for a big guy like me? Any other suggestions?
David
very nice post . thanks for it.